Comments on: Reestablishing the PCUSA? http://tonysundermeier.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/reestablishing-the-pcusa/ Thoughtful. Intentional. Missional. Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:13:06 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: brad http://tonysundermeier.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/reestablishing-the-pcusa/#comment-36 brad Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:52:05 +0000 http://tonysundermeier.wordpress.com/?p=91#comment-36 ... ahh! second cup of coffee is kickin' in! I just finished listening to a CD of John 13-17, which reminds me that, of course, the working out of practical unity through the Spirit is far more than difficult than embracing the concept of actual unity in the Spirit. Guess that's a whole post in itself ... … ahh! second cup of coffee is kickin’ in!

I just finished listening to a CD of John 13-17, which reminds me that, of course, the working out of practical unity through the Spirit is far more than difficult than embracing the concept of actual unity in the Spirit. Guess that’s a whole post in itself …

]]> By: brad http://tonysundermeier.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/reestablishing-the-pcusa/#comment-35 brad Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:12:43 +0000 http://tonysundermeier.wordpress.com/?p=91#comment-35 The ways we frame our questions precondition the answer. I like how you reframe some of the questions to refocus the emphasis on what brings interconnections within a denomination, and between the denomination and The Body - along with some individual qualities that are brought forth out of the relevant cultural context. I’ve sometimes wondered if it would help to frame the issue as a “theo-sociological fractal” pattern that tries to hold local/global in dynamic tension: * Each member of the Body of Christ is spiritually gifted for a providential way of interconnecting within the local body and cultural setting. Spiritual gifts are concentrated forms of the spiritual disciplines. For instance, the gift of hospitality is a heightened ability for some disciples that parallels the general command for all disciples to “welcome one another.” * We need to have all the gifts represented and working together, even when there is a unique angle to how the group/team/church presents itself. Similarly, qualifications for elders and deacons include their demonstrating a general maturity by practicing the discipline of these one-another commands, in addition to their spiritual gift. (Only using their gift does not count as an equivalent for obedience for all the general commands for disciples.) * Similarly, churches, denominations, and The Church should demonstrate this same sort of holism that is both local/specific and global/general. So, [churches / denominations] need to have all the spiritual gifts of the body functioning, although they may have an unusual specialized role (the equivalent of a spiritual gift) in [their local area / the global community] due to providential placement in a specific culture. So, what other sibling churches in their region round out a more holistic picture of The Body within that local cultural setting? What other sibling denominations round out a more holistic picture of The Body within the global cultural setting? How do regional developments worldwide contribute to a more holistic composite picture of The Church? ... sorry for the wordiness of this comment, and I’m sure I left out some planks in the flow of local/global. I’m only now starting my second cuppa Saturday morning coffee ... The ways we frame our questions precondition the answer. I like how you reframe some of the questions to refocus the emphasis on what brings interconnections within a denomination, and between the denomination and The Body – along with some individual qualities that are brought forth out of the relevant cultural context.

I’ve sometimes wondered if it would help to frame the issue as a “theo-sociological fractal” pattern that tries to hold local/global in dynamic tension:

* Each member of the Body of Christ is spiritually gifted for a providential way of interconnecting within the local body and cultural setting. Spiritual gifts are concentrated forms of the spiritual disciplines. For instance, the gift of hospitality is a heightened ability for some disciples that parallels the general command for all disciples to “welcome one another.”

* We need to have all the gifts represented and working together, even when there is a unique angle to how the group/team/church presents itself. Similarly, qualifications for elders and deacons include their demonstrating a general maturity by practicing the discipline of these one-another commands, in addition to their spiritual gift. (Only using their gift does not count as an equivalent for obedience for all the general commands for disciples.)

* Similarly, churches, denominations, and The Church should demonstrate this same sort of holism that is both local/specific and global/general. So, [churches / denominations] need to have all the spiritual gifts of the body functioning, although they may have an unusual specialized role (the equivalent of a spiritual gift) in [their local area / the global community] due to providential placement in a specific culture. So, what other sibling churches in their region round out a more holistic picture of The Body within that local cultural setting? What other sibling denominations round out a more holistic picture of The Body within the global cultural setting? How do regional developments worldwide contribute to a more holistic composite picture of The Church?

… sorry for the wordiness of this comment, and I’m sure I left out some planks in the flow of local/global. I’m only now starting my second cuppa Saturday morning coffee …

]]> By: Deacon http://tonysundermeier.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/reestablishing-the-pcusa/#comment-33 Deacon Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:56:52 +0000 http://tonysundermeier.wordpress.com/?p=91#comment-33 Usher: How can one discover themselves when they still hold on to pieces and parts? Deacon: It's just another form of the reformation - what people should be thinking is "demolition". The church is the body, not some institutional or denominational affiliation. Denominations today are no better than The lion, kiwanis, chamber of commerce types of social gatherings. Yet, the church provides even less to the people than the social organizations. Usher: How can one discover themselves when they still hold on to pieces and parts?

Deacon: It’s just another form of the reformation – what people should be thinking is “demolition”. The church is the body, not some institutional or denominational affiliation. Denominations today are no better than The lion, kiwanis, chamber of commerce types of social gatherings. Yet, the church provides even less to the people than the social organizations.

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